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Mantic Games’ Not-So-Limited-Editions

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There are many mistakes in this post, and it should never have been published in the first place. Please find the corrections and my apology here.

azure forest limited edition

What the hell is Mantic Games up to again?

It appears that they are trying to take a page out of Games Workshop’s playbook by launching more limited edition products.

The problem: their current limited edition DreadBall product is a reprint of their previous (I-guess-not-so) limited edition Dreadball product, from only (!) 4 months ago?

#1 – DreadBall Azure Forest, the First Limited Edition

Earlier this year, in February to be precise, Mantic Games launched a great little expansion for Dreadball, their best-selling futuristic sports-game: The Azure Forest.

I’ve played a few games using the new Azure Forest rules. The Azure Forest rules are, in my opinion, definitely a great addition to the game of DreadBall.

Now, for one reason or another, Mantic Games, when they brought out the Azure Forest mini-expansion, decided to advertise it as a limited edition product, with only a single print-run of the rulebook and a highly limited availability of the exclusive miniature.

Did the Azure Forest expansion need to be a limited edition release? Probably not. But that is what Mantic Games decided at the time. Now, as Azure Forest was, it seems, reasonably successful, it appears Mantic Games are regretting.

  • They are breaking with their 4-month old decision and re-printing the book they promised to never re-print.
  • What is worse, rather than owning up to their previous mistake and giving it a general release, they are making the we-will-never-reprint-it-reprint of the previous limited edition once again a … limited edition!!

#2 – DreadBall Azure Forest, the Second Limited Edition

azure forest limited edition

Now, Mantic Games is taking pre-orders for the we-said-we-would-never-reprint-it-reprint of Azure Forest, less than 4 months after they shipped the original Azure Forest, this time adding the rest of the regular Dreadball game into the mix (and a special-edition foil print… hurray!).

Now… don’t get me wrong. I think Azure Forest is a great addition to DreadBall. If you don’t have it… take this chance to pick it up. Azure Forest probably shouldn’t have been a ‘Limited Edition’-thing in the first place.

#3 – Erm … Why?

Which is the real question? Why is Mantic printing “limited edition” all over their products, when they don’t keep their word? At least Games Workshop keeps their limited edition stuff limited, even if they’d likely wish they didn’t (hello Void Shield Generator).

But backtracking on their own public statements?

Not a good way to approach this, Mantic.

And utterly unnecessary too, since the (limited-edition) Azure Forest was consciously said to be the first of several “Galactic Tour Series”.

  • Why not bring out a different entry into this Galactic Tour Series? Instead of reprinting the Azure Forest (which Mantic said they would never re-print?).
  • Why make this obviously successful a product once again a “limited edition”, now that they’ve have shown that they don’t hold themselves to their word?

All around a poor showing from a company that once set out to do it “better than GW”.

Z.

Zweischneid

Zweischneid

I am Zweischneid. Wargame Addict. Hopeless painter and founder of Pins of War. I hope you enjoyed this article. Don't forget to share your favourite miniature pictures and wargaming videos at www.pinsofwar.net.
Zweischneid

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  • Bobthemim

    Considering Mantic are ex-gw.. i was wondering how long it will take for them to make blundering mistakes.

    was just a bit longer than a thought

    • Robbie70

      Interesting article,

      i agree totally with a couple of points raised by Zweischneid.

      1, it is indeed a good addition to the game as it changes quite a lot of things that are going on with what the weather can do.

      2, If you do not have the game but are thinking of getting it, then definitely get this one ordered in NOW.

      The rest of the article is totally wrong. As having been in the warehouse when they were delivered and again recently, there are plenty of the original stock present as they have not all been sold. Why not add them to the boxed game to make it even more appealing to those not yet purchased it.

      Limited Edition….. What does this mean????

      For me it is a one time offer, once they are ALL gone then you cant get them again.

      This is what is happening here. They have NOT ALL gone, they have just been added to another product making this product a Limited Edition because once the Azure Forest book, cards etc have ALL GONE then they wont be available again.

      Basically you would need to check the facts before printing articles like this damning a company (any company) without ALL the facts. This will make anything you say in the future not very believable.

      • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

        Again. Where is the information that this is unsold stock from the first print-run (available for people without actual relationships to the company, including access to their warehouses)?

        • Lord of Toast

          Yes Robbie, where is the information!!!! Because until someone actually physically takes Zweischneid by the hand and lets him count up the stock, cross reference it with order forms from the original print run and cross compares it with the companies accounts its just not good enough.

          I mean what makes you think that he would actually believe someone who works there and is telling us that it is made from the 1st run.Do you think we live in a sane society where people trust one another.

          I dont think anything short of what I mentioned above will make this guy see sense. I think hes a bit over the nest now.

          I bet you he doesnt even offer an apology. In his own little world he thinks hes stumbled on the biggest conspiracy ever…..Very sad.

          Well Zweischneid its beginning to look like you were wrong…. Hope you have a retraction and apology ready :)

          • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

            “Biggest conspiracy ever”?

            I think you are getting worked up a bit.

            I said Azure Forest is a good product, but that (from the information available to the public (!) ), Mantic is re-releasing a product they previously claimed was limited.

            If indeed a Mantic employee is reading this and has information that shows how I was wrong, it should be easy to put it up somewhere on Mantic’s page, Mantic’s blog, etc..

            Until then, I’ll judge things by the information “publicly” available (as I do for all wargaming-related stuff I see, .e.g GW, etc….)

            By that measure, this is a poor way by Mantic to treat their customers. I am not claiming Mantic is the next Enron, but it is disappointing enough that I feel I should point it out to my readers.

            Either way, I cannot form opinions about Mantic products on the basis of company-inside information, just as I cannot do that for GW, or Privateer Press, etc… . I can only offer a customer-perspective.

            I’ve taken the “left-over” theory to heart. It’s a plausible theory.

            But I have not seen the warehouses, and it is besides the point. If customers need to see Mantic’s warehouse to know they aren’t duped with false Limited Editions, it’s still poor communications by Mantic.

            And even if the “left-over”-theory is true, and I get to see the warehouses, it’s still poor form that Mantic feels they need to make “small print” exceptions like this to their “Limited Editions”

            Again, the easiest solution would be to not market it as “Limited Edition”, if it isn’t that.

  • Denny Crane

    Good article….
    Defintly not something a fan-based company should keep working on

  • Red Lancer

    Perhaps doing some research into both the box contents and the reason for the reprint might shed a different light onto it.. Article strangely doesn’t mention the box contents that are different from both regular Dreadball and the Azure forest… so its not exactly a reprint of a reprint but instead a special edition of the Core game.

    • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

      But the difference between a regular core-game and a regular Azure Forest is that this LE puts both into the same box (with fancy foil).

      The Azure Forest rulebook, the cards, etc.. are all identical to the ones they promised to never reprint. Does a fancy “foil”-box make that less of a cheat?

  • Matthew Fontana

    Does Limited Edition inherently mean “we will not print this again” or does it just mean “we only have X copies printed and we don’t think there will be enough demand for another run of X so we can’t promise to keep it available forever.”? I dug back through my old emails and couldn’t find anything explicitly promising that these books would never be available ever again.

  • Lord of Toast

    I suspect we will find that this box set is going to be made from bits of the unsold 3000 print run of Azure Forrest.
    I see its basically the Delux version with the Azure Forrest added, some snazzy cool pitch and some extra MVP’s in a foil box.
    So I expect that your knee jerk rant might be a little unfounded in the long run. But yes if they had of reprinted it that would have been bad…
    Almost as bad as GW offering limited edition 40K rule books for £150 6 months before changing them to 7th edition…. ;)

    • cheese cracker

      This would appear to be closer to the truth than your whole article. I bet that there is now withdrawal or apology for your baseless aligations

      • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

        If they are indeed “old” Azure Forest books, I am happy to apologize.

        Still doesn’t change the fact that the A’Tea miniature was said to be available with Mantic points only after the initial run.

        Either way, I find it a tasteless and awkward.

        Why didn’t they simply do it as “Galactic Tour Series 2: Crimson Desert, or Gleaming Cities, or whatever…?

        Or, ya know, stop printing “limited edition” on these things and just sell them on the merit of their contents, rather than a deception of scarcity that they don’t intend to follow up?

        • cheese cracker

          The initial run refers to the initial run of books which comprised the Azure forest pack. In this limited edition the remaining packs have been merged with the core game and had a new pitch added.

          I am sure that there soon will be a new galaxtic pack, probably involving ice…

          • Lord of Toast

            Winter is coming…….
            I would like to see a Organised Play pack. A mini league. To get gamers out there playing in stores and against different people!
            Some limited miniatures and tokens. Maybe these could move onto their Mantic Points system later…….And for them to do 2 – 3 of these a year like other companies!

            So back to Zweischneid. If these are made out of whats left of the 3000 initial run, wouldnt it make them Limited edition, as you know…. once they were sold they would be out of production. I think letting people know that this is a limited run is fine if this is the case.

            And the miniature, once all the 3000 are sold through, dont you think that it will be going to Mantic points only, so I dont see why you are upset about something that Mantic have said would happen and hasnt yet because they havent sold all their sets….The fact that they havent sold out of Azure Forrest yet is probably why it isnt on the Mantic Points site.

            Maybe you should look into getting some more facts before getting so upset at this, you are just getting yourself worked up over something that isnt the case (lets wait and see if they make some more information available), and potentially upsetting a few other people with wrong information. Im not sure that this is what you really want to do is it? Its not a great reputation to have.

            Life is too short old boy………

          • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

            /shrug

            They said Azure Forest was limited edition, rules and miniatures.

            Now they are releasing it again, if in a slightly different format.

            if they are indeed simply clearing surplus stock, they could’ve said so. They can still say so, and I’ll happily apologize.

            But without that information, it looks like they are re-releasing something they previously sold with the explicit claim that they would not re-release it.

            Just because it could/maybe/possibly/speculation not be a re-print, but a re-packaging of unsold first-print run (which might “technically” be within their original wording, though still dodgy in the execution) doesn’t mean it’s not worth pointing out how Mantic seems to be doing some (most likely) dodgy false-information vs. their customers.

          • Lord of Toast

            Again, if they are making out of the 3000 copies of the print run I fail to see why you are getting sooo worked up.

            Lets see what they say, because I bet you dollars to donuts that they ARE making it out of the 3000 print run.

            Which would explain why it is limited in numbers.
            A re release would imply a new print run….. I think you will find this is infact unsold stock from the 3000……..Lets wait to see what they say.

            I think that saying they are giving customers false information is just plain silly now. You dont have all the facts and dont seem to want to wait for more information before you slander someone. Lets just wait and see what comes out of Mantic in the next few days about this product.

            By the way, if Mantic didnt call it a Limited release, and they sold their xyz number of copies and didnt do anymore, would you attack them for not pointing out that this was a limited release?

            Much better to call it limited so customers understand that it wont be available for ever….And nobody gets false impressions of the item.

            As I said before. You are getting yourself all worked up over something you precive to be one thing, when it might be something else. Why dont you go and find out some more information before you start stating things as facts. I think that an apology would definitely be in order if you are wrong.

            Anyway, enough of this nonsense……lets talk about how cool the pitch is!

          • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

            Again. Speculation.

            If (big if) they are indeed unsold copies from the first print-run, they would be in line with the small print from their first limited edition (still makes it odd that they would have “small print” like this in a LE).

            But nothing I see would suggest that this is the case, and it should’ve been obvious for Mantic to put that information front and centre, if it were the case.

          • Lord of Toast

            Yep, we will see in a couple of days whether or not you will be apologizing and offering a retraction, or if you were right. Lets wait and see……

            Maybe you think its obvious that they should have stated that these were made from the same print run as the original 3000, but I think that on a whole the majority of people out there are not as suspicious and angry as you.

            However lessons to be learnt going forwards I suppose. If you are going to offer a deal, make sure you cover every nuance of information about it otherwise people will misinterpret it and fly off the handle as you have been so quick to do.

          • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

            And as I said in the article, Mantic could’ve simply avoided labeling the Azure Forest (both the original and now this “re-release”) as Limited Edition.

            Why do they both printing ‘Limited Edition’ on there, when they feel like they need to add several caveats (Mantic Points, digital, other forms of re-packaging) afterwards?

            Just don’t call it a limited edition and nobody gets false expectations….no?

  • Red Lancer

    I believe that, in this instance, the Ltd Edition refers to the fact that its not an unlimited production run. I.e. “regular” Dreadball will continue to be made for a long time to come and be generally available at all times. If they are only printing 750 or so then folks will be ticked off if they wait to buy it and discover that it was a “ltd edition” and not something that will be around for a while. Seems to me, that Mantic are damned if they do here and damned if they don’t – tell everybody its ltd edition and some complain, don’t tell them its ltd edition and some will complain.. As far as I know, Mantic did 1 print run on the Azure Forest mini book, if thats’ included in this then that would be part of the same run, either way there is no misinformation as it seems that being honest about the fact that a product won’t be around forever saves on annoying people when it disappears – only some folk seem annoyed at being told the truth.!? i don’t really get it..

  • Red Lancer

    http://manticblog.com/2014/06/17/azure-forest-ltd-edition/

    Game, set and match i think…

  • Lord of Toast

    New blog is up on Mantic page……It is made up of the original Azure Forrest.

    http://manticblog.com/2014/06/17/azure-forest-ltd-edition/

  • Daedle

    Looks like there’s a response here: http://manticblog.com/2014/06/17/azure-forest-ltd-edition/