Kickbashing: Beyond the Gates of Eisenkern

Rick Priestley’s Gates of Antares Kickstarter is struggling. Struggling hard.

That does not mean that it doesn’t have potential. Quite the opposite. I’ve tried to pin down some of the things that are keeping Rick Priestley’s Kickstarter down so far.

I’ll do it a bit different here. I wanna pitch an idea (originally by Theophony of Dakka) to merge two ambitious miniature wargaming projects, whose respective strengths and weaknesses are near-perfect complements to each other: Rick Priestley’s Gates of Antares and Mark Mondragon’s DreamForge miniatures, which kickstarted last year.

It is an exercise in blue-sky-thinking, admittedly. But wouldn’t it be awesome if it would work? It could quite possibly break a lot of Kickstarter-records. Here is why!

#1 – DreamSpaceCorp WarDrones

For one, Gates of Antares has a Drone-challenge to master.

So far, the Gates of Antares team revealed only one miniature, Hansa Nairoba, sculpted by Hasslefree Miniature‘s Kevin White. He turned out to be a great, grim techno-primitive sci-fi warrior with one mean mustache. I look forward to seeing more.

Yet, as a character, he’ll only be one miniature on the table. The real stress-test for this Kickstarter are the so-called ‘WarDrones’.

Drones
These include all kinds of sentient machines including WarDrones. All human factions have type of drones and can have WarDrones, although not all factions have equally effective WarDrones.

Why?

Because unlike Hansa, everyone pledging high on this Kickstarter is getting a lot of drones!

Rick Priestley's Gates of Antares Kickstarter

Gates of Antares Kickstarter “Feeder” Pledge-Level

Admittedly, the Gates of Antares Kickstarter says these drones would be multi-part, multi-option plastic kits. Yet as talented as guys like Hasselfree are for cool, thematic characters and more individual models, nobody demonstrated skills for perfect, multi-part miniature kits from the latest steel-mould slide core tooling like DreamForge-Games did.

#2 – Beyond the Gates of Eisenkern

I have to wonder what the potential of this Kickstarter could be, if guys like Hasselfree sculpted the unique characters for Gates of Antares, and Rick Priestley could get Mark Mondragon from DreamForge-Games on board to do plastic kits – full of DreamForge’s trademark abundance of bits, options and conversion pieces – for the rank and file units, mainly the Drones, which will appear in multiples in every Gates of Antares army.

DreamForge-Games Eisenkern Rifle Squad

Eisenkern Rifle Squad Assembly Instructions

And it doesn’t need to stop there.

Mark Mondragon is developing (with a community-based approach) his own game setting: Iron-Core. I hope he continues to do that.

But past Kickstarters demonstrated that cross-Kickstarter cooperations work and can be very popular. Kingdom Death, for example, paid respect to Sedition Wars, Relic Knight and others with special miniatures.

Rick Priestley could do something similar, just not with miniatures, but with his expertise of rules. How would that work? Well, how about some “Rick-Priestley-official” rules supplement to use DreamForge Leviathan Titans in your “GoA Apocalypse” games?

In short, Dreamforge + Gates of Antares would be the near-perfect kickstarter-bash. State-of-the-art multi-part plastic minis from digital sculpting meet the hobbies premier rule-making authority in a perfect storm of Kickstarter-madness.

#3 – The Tale of Hansa and Ada

Don’t you think they’d make a nice pair?

And as we’re blue-sky-thinking anyway, why stop there?

Whey not have some Shadokesh hide behind one of the more obscure “Gates” in Gates of Antares. Or the whole Iron Core? License to use some of the GoA miniatures in the Iron-Core game (and perhaps even a Rick Priestley game-design consulting via Skype) could boost the other games popularity too.

One could even match up characters; turn Hansa and Ada into former lovers, suddenly finding themselves on opposing sites in the shadowy war for the Baldegunt Cluster, or some such.

Hell, someone tweet ADB for the kick-off novel. He’s in the Kickstarter I hear!

Anyhow, I am starting to ramble.

Thoughts?

Z.

About Zweischneid

Hi. I am Zweischneid. Wargame Addict. Miniature Connoisseur. Aspiring Blogger. Did you like this post? Follow me on Twitter or Facebook for more. And don't forget to share your favourite miniature pictures and wargaming videos at www.pinsofwar.net.

  • orlando the techincoloured

    Hiring somebody who can produce a high quality wardrone. YES (big time), and if Marc in interested why not

    but mixing up the two systems, no I don’t think it’s a good idea, one or other of them would end up loosing out
    Rick & Co need to work this out on their own

    • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

      To an extend, this is just a “fun what if” post. I don’t expect it to happen.

      And yes, one of the two settings would likely loose out (though ironically Rick’s “Gates” setting could serve as a “meta-setting” for a number of smaller ones). That said, they could also both loose out (with or without a merger).

      More importantly, however, why I wrote this post is that there is more generally a trend towards fragmentation and balkanization with all those Kickstarters out there.

      People do what people do best and make money with it on Kickstarter. But (CMON & Kingdom Death aside), it kinda takes the incentive out from people to combine their strength into “joint ventures” to make complete games.

      Some got kick-ass miniatures. Others have kick-ass rules, Yet another guy might have some kick-ass background, stories and fluff. And as long as they can all “get by” on Kickstarter, there’s no reason for them to hook up and produce as real, polished whole.

      • Briny Wits

        “People do what people do best and make money with it on Kickstarter. /…/ Some got kick-ass miniatures. Others have kick-ass rules, Yet another guy might have some kick-ass background, stories and fluff.”

        And GoA will have to excel at all of those to get to the market, where it will, ultimately, have to fight 40k for a slice.

        Their selling points seem to be (to me at least) a set of rules, written by mr. Priestley with fans’ input (though the separation between the two is less clear to me – perhaps there is more info on the forums) and the persistent, player-influenced background with an impact on gameplay.

        The first is a simple matter – if a game is good people will want to play it. But the latter, I think, is a bit more complex. I think that people enjoy playing games like Mordheim, Necromunda, Bloodbowl, Empire of the Dead, etc. because it gives their miniatures a dimension of “life” – a purpose and a story. And for that, you need to care for your band of miniatures. Be it the time you’ve spent individualizing your Mordheim characters and giving them a background story, or just your BB team’s uniform color choice.

        So what happens if you don’t immediately fall in love with the GoA figure range, feel “touched” by it and say “Yes! I want to take these dudes through a campaign, the struggles, get rewards, evolve and tell an epic story!” ? You’re left with the promise of a really good set of rules on one hand and established player bases of other systems on the other.

        I imagine these disgruntled 40k players going “Yeah, the rules are said to be solid and the campaigning system … wish GW still did that … but I have thousands of points in my custom marine chapter and looking at those butt-plates …”

        It is a strictly personal preference, but I’d be much more interested if the project said something like “We’ll be making an official line of figures for the involved sides (you know – the way we imagine them), but if you don’t like those or have invested elsewhere, you’re still welcome to join in and play! Just sign up your marines/prepainted AT 43 Red Blok as the human concord, we’ll still be happy to have you aboard. It might be that the games won by “Battle Brothers” list of human concord will have less of an impact on the persistent universe than those won with an “Official Army” line (have to reward the customer), or playing with anything other than the official line counts as being a mercenary for a chosen site. But maybe once a year there will be a “For the Emp … sorry, Pope-Tsar-Dude!” event, where the grumpy armour-clad brotherhood celebrates their half-dead boss and gets real fight-y and they get bonuses for shooting their bolt … er, … hand cannons and some new shoulder guards if they win. You know, just because we’re happy to have you. Sure, you might not have bought into the official line of figures, but the guy at the store who’s just beginning can, because he doesn’t have to convince two or three others to pick up a completely new game from the get-go. And because you find that idea (and saving cash) so cool, perhaps you’ll wish to add this drone model of ours to your Tau army for the next game of GoA (because our master sculptors did something way cooler than GW). Besides, we’re confident enough in our miniature line, that we feel it will be picked up next to the competing product because it’s cooler, not because you need it to play. Welcome through the Gates of Antares, it will be the space-opera/Sci-Fi gaming experience of your lifetime. Would you like this box of plastic drones?”

        Interestingly enough I seem to recall mr. Priestly once talking about how 40k universe became stagnant and close-minded, how its biggest promise – of countless worlds laden with alien curiosities died in the attempts to make canon material more … clear/accessible/ streamlined but really just a slave to the chosen armies that have proven to be profitable (aka Marines).

        I really think that the biggest potential challenge for GoA – to get out as a complete game and compete on the market – even at the stage of Kickstarter – could be it’s biggest opportunity to get people excited; “No, we don’t have much to show you in terms of miniature greens – we’ll have those done as the money comes in, but in the meantime, just imagine what you could do with your minis, our rules and the online campaign system. And as the greens get done, you’ll see you really want those.”

        • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

          Well, I think before it gets to compete with 40K for a slice for the market, it needs to compete with other challengers seeking to be the game that gets to challenge 40K for a slice of the market.

          Noone doubts Mr. Priestley’s capacity to produce good rules

          However, the competition is still, Warpath rules have been in “open-community-driven” development for months, with Alessio Cavatore giving as much insight, feedback and communication as Rick Priestley does). It also has a first “step-stone” game out there with DreadBall (building the universe from the “small” game to the “large” game, rather than the other way around, and dozends of miniatures:

          In the end, it is still a miniature game they want to sell. Nobody is going to spend 100+ dollar on “good rules” and “good background”.

          Just buy a novel and play some chess instead.

          It’s good to have all those features in place, which they are aiming for. But for making a miniature game, miniatures will (and should) never be a negligible factor.

          And as I wanted to express with this post, they simply don’t (currently) have the people/machinery on board to produce multi-part plastics, seems crucial to the “WarDrones”. Hasselfree do great sculpts. But their “traditional” approach doesn’t make these kind of multi-functional sprues.

          A miniature (!) game pivoting with 40+ mono-pose models will never be a “40K challenger”, no matter how good the rules are.

          • Briny Wits

            I completely agree with what you’re saying.
            But I think Mantic got where they are by sticking to their vision – ‘affordable alternative’ through every little step they took from the first few elf sculpts right up to where they are now, even surpassing it by offering products that stand on their own.

            I understand GoA’a vision to be ‘a new, evolving gaming universe’. Since, as you put it, miniatures are not a negligible element in a miniature game, but they can’t afford to have them developed as a tangible concept – a “vessel” of their vision if you will – then they’ll probably have to do something about it.
            You’ve proposed teaming up with someone who has the resources.
            I think another option would be to empower people to use their imagination with a number of existing sci-fi lines, gather enough resources and then release the official line, which will have to be different from existing concepts in order to sell anyway.
            You’re familiar with Fanticide – that’s basically the premise I’m suggesting here, since Darkspace don’t (yet) seem to be able to afford the quality of Sedition Wars or affordability of Mantic. I’m convinced that if Fanticide allowed only for using the official (80ies looking) minis, it wouldn’t be where it is now (released). I think Alien Dungeon’s vision was an ‘innovative fantasy game in an off-the-wall setting’. They offered four unique factions, but realizing they might not be to everyone’s taste and that a lot of their potential customers already have existing armies, they’ve also tapped into that, in order to sell the above vision. With money they’ll earn they can put out new unique factions and slowly evolve from “here’s something for people disappointed with WH 8th” to a game that can vie for slice higher up, set apart by a number of unique, different factions.

          • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

            Good points. But Fanticide simply isn’t a half-a-million-dollar-deal. Not even close. So the comparison stumbles there.

            By setting themself the goal of GBP 300.000,-, GoA clearly set itself the goal to play in the big leagues. And they are probably overreaching.

            Which goes back to the question of why do they want to (first) make a game with 40+ each side?

            Given the resources and talent of sculptors they have on board, why didn’t they start “small” like (also ex-GW) Mike McVey does it with his “vision of an alternative sci-fi universe.

            Do a smaller Necromunda-/Space-Hulk style game first (they clearly said they want one of those anyhow). Something more modest, that works with a handful of unique Hasslefree sculpts each side and introduces people to the fluff.

            Follow up a year later with a GoA-version of Gorkamorka to add some vehicle rules, introduce larger miniature-kits, etc..

            After that, perhaps a pen-and-paper RPG to flesh out the background.

            Than do the “big one”:

            That is how Sedition Wars is moving along.

            That is, how Mantic is doing it with DreadBall > Warpath.

            Both now have a Million-Dollar headstart to being the “sci-fi-setting-that-challenges-40K” (or at least Infinity, etc..).

            That said, I still belief that Rick Priestley & co. can pull this off. But, as the “Kickbash” was supposed to illustrate, they would need to take a good, long look at their team and realize that they are world-class in some fields, but not in others. For those other fields, they need to get world-class on board.

            Fanticide-league will not cut it.

          • Briny Wits

            I agree. I think overreaching really says it all.

            I understand the lack of concept art to be explained at various places by the lack of funds and the idea of having as much of the stuff as possible created by fans.
            1. Concept sketches are cheap.
            2. Having everything created from scratch, by a large number of people runs the risk of very little being innovative.

  • James Barr

    I don’t know…the kick tracker has it projected not too far off, and from what I’ve seen it often low balls things this far out. I expect he has a decent shot at the goal.

    • http://pinsofwar.net/ Zweischneid

      Sure.

      I am not saying it doesn’t have a shot. It sure does. But those “recoveries” you often see in other Kickstarters trending low aren’t just magically happening out of the blue.

      They happen because the creators change things in the campaign, put more effort into the marketing, etc.., and get things back on track. Every Kickstarter-comeback has a hard-working comeback-story behind it.